Interview with Andrew Clennell, Sky News Sunday Agenda

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS SUNDAY AGENDA
SUNDAY, 21 APRIL 2024

SUBJECTS: Bondi junction incident; Wakeley church incident; eSafety; Elon Musk; Senate supermarket inquiry; cost of living; immigration; Bruce Lehrmann defamation judgement; Sustainable Ag Summit.

ANDREW CLENNELL, HOST: We'll get to that Coles, Woolies issue with Murray Watt, Emergency Management and Agriculture Minister, in a second. But Murray Watt, thanks for your time. I wanted to start by asking you about the tragic events of the past week. As Emergency Management Minister, what would you like to say about the incidents themselves, the response of emergency services, and how safe should we feel going about our daily business at the moment?

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FORESTRY, MINISTER FOR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Yeah, good morning, Andrew. And as you said in your introduction, this has been a really tough week for a lot of people in Australia, particularly in Sydney, with those two terrible attacks that we saw over the course of the last week. I think our emergency services personnel, whether it be the paramedics, the police officers and many others who became involved, we owe them an enormous debt of gratitude for putting their lives on the line to save others. They've done a magnificent job, as they always do, and deserve our thanks for that.

I think it's really important, though, that Australians do feel that we do have the ability to go about our lives safely. It's one of the things that we cherish about Australia and we never want to lose that. And that's why we do need to make sure that we do have the laws, processes and personnel to keep things that way. I was actually in a big Westfield shopping centre here in Brisbane yesterday, and I was thinking about how terrifying it must have been for people. But that visit to my local shops yesterday showed me and reminded me that people just don't go to these shopping centres to buy things, they're places where people gather, they catch up with friends and family, and we never want to lose that. So, we'll be trying to take a measured response to this to make sure that people are kept safe while at the same time enjoying those kind of freedoms that Australians do cherish.

CLENNELL: I just reported there'll be a renewed focus from the government on social media and your misinformation bill after this. Do you think the Opposition will be more inclined to support that legislation after events of the past week?

WATT: I certainly hope so, Andrew. And I certainly hope that the events of the last week, including the proliferation of misinformation on social media, has really given everyone pause for thought about why we do need stronger laws. Unfortunately, and you just aired some of those false pieces of information that were circulating after the Wakeley attack. The technology that we're dealing with is rapidly changing and it shows why the laws that we have in place need to rapidly change as well.

Obviously, the eSafety Commissioner already has powers to demand the removal of material from social media giants. And we've seen some of that commentary by Elon Musk overnight about that. But what we want to do is go further and mandate the kind of laws that apply around misinformation rather than just having the voluntary code that can be just ignored by the social media giants at the moment. I think the events of the last week show that we do need to do more.

CLENNELL: It's a fair point, because Elon Musk is giving you the bird effectively, isn't he?

WATT: Yeah, look, I saw his comments and it's exactly what you'd expect from Elon Musk. He doesn't think he seems to owe any obligation to any member of the public. Quite frankly, I think the public's had a gutful of these narcissistic billionaires who think they are above the law. They have a social responsibility to do the right thing by their consumers. They're not doing it. They do think they are above the law. They're thumbing their nose at the laws that we have in place. And I think it's entirely fair that we go after them. They have a responsibility as producers and disseminators of information to do the right thing by the public. They make a lot of money off the public, billions of dollars a year, and I think they owe us all a responsibility and they should comply with the laws like everyone else does.

CLENNELL: Do you understand how there are fears about unintended consequences around freedom of expression and information from this bill?

WATT: Yeah, I understand that. And I guess that's the balance we're trying to strike. And I know that Michelle Rowland, as the Communications Minister, has put an enormous amount of effort into consulting stakeholders to make sure that we do get this balance right. We do need to remember, though, that in the world and in Australia, we've never had an entire freedom of speech, there's always been restrictions around speech when it comes to defamation, contempt of court. And as I say, I think as technology evolves and the world evolves, we need to make sure that the law keeps up with it. And unfortunately, it hasn't been keeping up with it to date. And that's exactly why we need to make those changes.

CLENNELL: Do you personally think there could be more done about knife crime and about what security guards can carry in shopping centres in this country?

WATT: Yeah, I guess the events again of the last week show that we can't take these things lightly. Fortunately, we don't have the level of knife crime that we have seen in other parts of the world, and we want to keep it that way. But I think this is a healthy discussion for us to now be having in the wake of these incidents about whether we do need to stiffen penalties. And I know that discussion will now occur with the states and territories. Again, I think we need to be careful not to overreact to these things. And we don't want to see our shopping centres become sort of armed places where people feel on edge when they're really about trying to promote a healthy, happy, optimistic atmosphere in those shopping centres. But you can't have events like the last week occur and not rethink what might be needed. So, I think that will be a really healthy discussion to have.

CLENNELL: I wanted to ask now about your portfolio of agriculture. During the week we saw Coles and Woolies hauled before this Senate inquiry and we know you're talking about fines for the big supermarkets in a new mandatory code of conduct and you've got an ACCC inquiry coming. What is the government hoping to do here? How much Coles and Woolworths to blame for the cost of living crisis? Or is this partly about the government trying to distract from its own inability to press ahead with fixing this?

WATT: No, I don't think it is, Andrew. I mean, what it comes down to is that we think that everyone has got a role to play in providing cost of living relief to Australians. The government has obviously taken a range of steps, in particular the tax cuts that will come into place on the 1 July. But supermarkets and big business have also got a responsibility here to try to do the right thing by Australians at a time when people are feeling the pinch. So, I think it's entirely appropriate that the supermarkets are accountable for their actions, whether it be through a Senate inquiry, a new mandatory code of conduct or anything else. And, in the end, what we're seeking here is simply a fair deal for farmers and for families. And I think any honest observer would say that that hasn't been happening.

This issue really blew up last year when we saw that massive gap between what farmers were receiving for their produce and what consumers were paying. And sure, there are some costs that are incurred in between the farm gate and the checkout, but nothing like what people were having to pay when they go to get their weekly grocery bill. So, I think it's great that we're finally seeing some action here. It would have been great to see it before we came to power, but we are now taking action. And I think that interim report Craig Emerson has handed down has really put forward some good options, like a mandatory code of conduct for the supermarkets and much bigger fines than what they face at the moment.

CLENNELL: Well, we just reported on evidence that suppliers are forced to chuck out as much as 40% of their fresh produce because of small blemishes and the like. How much of a problem is that? Are you aware of it and are you going to do anything about it?

WATT: Yeah, it's a significant problem, Andrew, and I've met many farmers on their farms who've raised these issues with me, and that's exactly why I worked with Jim Chalmers and Andrew Leigh and others to make sure that we had that review undertaken by Craig Emerson. Clearly there had been issues bubbling below the surface in the farm sector for many years and action hadn't been taken to relieve them, even by the National Party who say they're for farmers. And it fell to a Labor government to do something about this. You know, I think everyone understands that poor quality fruit and veggies, no one would expect the supermarkets to take them, pay for them and put them on the shelves.

But I think what we've been seeing is a much too onerous regime for farmers that it's simply impossible to meet. There are some good things that are starting to happen on farms as well around using second grade food for processed goods. I've seen some of that myself in Victoria. But what we want to make sure of is that farmers do get a fair price for their produce, they're not locked into contracts where all the power sits with the supermarkets. And that's the kind of system that we want to bring into place as a result of these reviews we've got underway.

CLENNELL: I've also reported this morning there won't be much new cost of living relief in the budget other than the stage three tax cuts, as you say. But what there is, there'll be some for young people, rental assistance, HECS changes. Are you worried their vote could head to the Greens otherwise? Brisbane's been a hotspot for that.

WATT: I think for starters, Andrew, I'd have to pick you up on nothing much coming for the budget in cost of living. I mean, those tax cuts that we're bringing in will mean that every single taxpayer in Australia gets a tax cut other than the tax cut, which is different to what was going to happen under the LNP.

CLENNELL: I did say other than the tax cuts.

WATT: Yeah, it's going to make a pretty huge difference to people's hip pockets, I think, and help with those cost of living pressures. But, of course, we're going to do everything we can to provide whatever cost of living relief we can, while not adding to inflation and while making sure that we keep a strong budget. The worst thing we could do, and you acknowledge this in your introduction, is that we don't want to be throwing fuel on the fire at a time when we finally got inflation starting to come down. We've got unemployment below 4%, which is a good thing, and we've got wages rising higher than inflation. They're the kind of fundamentals that we want to keep in place.

But obviously, we want to provide support to young people, they tend to have lower incomes and are facing real pressures, particularly in the housing market and the rental market. It's why last year we gave a significant increase to rental assistance in last year's budget to try to help keep young people with those kind of costs. And wherever we've got the opportunity to do so, we'll do so.

CLENNELL: All right, big defence announcement for the budget during the week by Richard Marles. He immediately got panned for saying there was an emergency, but saying we only had an extra 5 billion over four years for it. What's your reaction to that reaction?

WATT: Yeah, I thought that criticism was pretty unfair. I mean, I think Richard Marles and Pat Conroy have done a fantastic job in locking in an investment plan for our defence force that actually can be delivered and that actually is funded. It's a real contrast from what we saw from Peter Dutton when he was the Defence Minister and the former Morrison Government, who, in defence, like everywhere else in government, they would wander around making all sorts of announcements without actually bothering to put any money in the budget to deliver them. We'd all love to live in a world where you can click your fingers and announce a defence frigate today and have it operational tomorrow. It doesn't work that way.

But this increase in funding is a huge increase compared to what we've seen in recent decades. Even the $5 billion plus that'll be there over the next four years is the biggest one off addition to our defence funding that we've seen in Australia for decades and $50 billion over the next decade alone. So, that is finally going to help us catch up with that capability gap that we inherited from the Coalition. So, I think that Richard, Pat and everyone in the defence force involved has done a terrific job to get in place an investment plan that is real, that is funded, and that we can actually deliver and meet our defence needs.

CLENNELL: Another problem the budget will seek to address is immigration. Will we see visa fees lifted?

WATT: Well, obviously, Andrew, you wouldn't expect me to be revealing anything that might or might not be in the budget today, but we have identified some time ago that there is a lot of concern, an understandable concern, in the Australian community about migration levels. Clare O'Neil, Andrew Giles, the Prime Minister and many more have been doing a lot of work on this area as well. And that's why we are expecting to see migration numbers fall over the coming twelve months, particularly the work that Clare has done with Jason Clare and Brendan O'Connor around the vocational education system, because those numbers were blowing out significantly and frankly, some of the courses that were being offered just weren't up to scratch.

So, we understand there's an issue, we're taking action on it. It was inevitable that there was going to be an increase in migration for a short term post COVID, as people started coming back in the country. But we do need to have it at manageable levels and I'm confident that we've got those settings right.

CLENNELL: Another big news story during the week was the defamation judgement around Bruce Lehrmann. What's your reaction to Justice Lee's judgement? And Labor prosecuted quite hard there was a political cover up around Brittany Higgins rape allegation. Does the government accept Justice Lee's conclusion there wasn't a cover up?

WATT: I think we just need to remember, Andrew, that what we're talking about here was a really harrowing set of circumstances that particularly involve one young woman. And I think that for all concerned, and I think for the Australian public, it's probably been helpful to have some clarity about what did occur. The judge obviously sifted through all of the evidence and he concluded that Brittany Higgins tragically was raped in a Minister's office in Parliament House. And I think to finally have some certainty about that matter is obviously no doubt good for Brittany Higgins, but I think it's good for the Australian community as a whole to have those issues resolved.

I don't really intend to get into whether the judgement was right or wrong, and there's obviously been some developments overnight around that. But I think that the most important thing is that this case has been heard, a judgement has been handed down. And importantly, I think that Parliament House has had a lot of changes made into its operations to make sure that it's a much safer place to work these days than it used to be.

CLENNELL: Just briefly, do you think there was a cover up?

WATT: Again, I'm not going to sort of get into that. I mean, they're matters that the judge has decided. And again, I think what we need to remember is what's at the heart of this is the tragic rape of a young woman in a Minister's office that should never have occurred. And it's a good thing that changes have been made at parliament to hopefully make sure that something like that never happens again.

CLENNELL: All right, finally, you're holding a summit next month in Queensland around what the players in agriculture can do to meet the country's net zero target. At the same time, the Queensland Opposition Leader has upset his federal colleagues it seems, David Crisafulli, because he supported Labor's net zero targets in Queensland. What can you tell us about all this?

WATT: Yeah, you're right, Andrew. We will be holding a summit in late May in the Darling Downs here in Queensland, bringing together farmers, farm groups, environmentalists, community groups around how we can work with the agriculture sector to help it continue to reduce its emissions. We know that farmers are on the front line of climate change when it comes to natural disasters and it's impacting their productivity, and we want to work with the sector to be ready for that low emissions future.

And it's a huge contrast to what we're seeing yet again in the LNP here in Queensland, as you say, this week the state leader, David Crisafulli, voted for the Miles Government's legislation to reduce emissions by 75% by 2035. And what did we see? Yet again we had David Littleproud, Keith Pitt, Matt Canavan out there saying it was insane, it was reckless, it was dangerous, it's unachievable. And they're even talking about bringing it forward to their party convention for a big debate and opposition. So, same old story with the LNP. They're still split on climate change, trying to hold industry back. And I think the question now is for Peter Dutton, as the most senior LNP person here in Queensland, who does he stand with? Is he with David Crisafulli or is he with the National Party?

CLENNELL: Murray Watt, Emergency Management and Agriculture Minister, thanks so much for your time this morning.

WATT: Thanks, Andrew. Good to talk.