Interview with Laura Tingle, ABC 7.30

11 June 2024

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC 7.30
TUESDAY, 11 JUNE 2024

SUBJECTS: Australia-China relationship; Climate targets; Opposition’s mess of a climate plan.

LAURA TINGLE, HOST: Murray Watt, welcome to 7.30.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FORESTRY: G'day, Laura, good to be with you.

LAURA TINGLE: The Chinese Premier's visit that starts this weekend is obviously symbolically significant. But should we be seeking to achieve something more concrete from the visit in terms of a clearer statement of our longer-term ambitions for the relationship and particularly some areas of cooperation, such as green industries and climate change?

MURRAY WATT: Yes, well, as the Prime Minister said this afternoon, Laura, this is obviously another very positive step towards stabilising our relationship with China, which of course, remains our biggest trading partner, not just in the agriculture sector, but more broadly as well. And it's a really good opportunity for us to demonstrate our national values, also the qualities of our people and of course the shared economic interests that our two countries have.

I have no doubt that all Ministers who are participating, including myself, will continue to raise some of those remaining trade impediments that we have in place, despite having achieved so much already over the last few months. But, yeah, I think it is a really important symbolic move. But also there will be some practical opportunities to continue that dialogue that we've been doing since we were elected and to deliver real dividends for the Australian people.

LAURA TINGLE: One of the changes that's going to be taking place in that climate change space is we've got the prospect of the return of Donald Trump and far right governments in Europe. That must spell trouble for international agreements like Paris. Does that make having some sort of cooperation with China in this area, given their interests in the green economy, even more important?

MURRAY WATT: Well, we obviously as a government seek cooperation with a whole range of countries and different regions around these sorts of issues. Obviously, I'm not going to comment on what may or may not happen in overseas elections or has recently happened in Europe over the last few days, but we still continue to believe that there are real opportunities for the world in continuing to uptake greener technology, the jobs that can flow from it, the cheaper power prices that can result from it as well.

So, regardless of what's happening in different parts of the world, this is an agenda that we're very committed to. We know that China is interested in cooperating with us on these issues. Again, as the Agriculture Minister, this is an issue that I've discussed with my counterpart in China about how we can exchange technology and know-how in sustainable agriculture. There are clearly similar opportunities when it comes to the mining and resources sector. So, we will very much be taking up those issues as part of this visit and in the forthcoming time as well.

LAURA TINGLE: There's obviously now a very live political contest between the major parties about emissions reductions targets and our Paris commitments. Most people watching this don't really know what all the percentages mean, what the Paris Accord is about. But can you explain to them the significance of a 2030 emissions target in that is a shorter-term target in terms of the trajectory of Australia's attempts to cut emissions?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, I can understand that people get a little bit lost in the jargon and the data sets that get provided. But what this is really about is whether Australia wants to have a future that involves cheaper, cleaner energy and the jobs that come from it. Clearly, there are massive environmental gains for Australia and the world as a whole if we do move towards cleaner energy and reduce emissions. And certainly, as the disaster Minister, I've seen a lot of different climate change related disasters, and we know there will be more.

So, there are good environmental reasons for taking action on these issues. But also, this is the path for Australia to have the cheaper energy that so many Australians are crying out for. This is the path for Australia to have a manufacturing base again, like we did in the old days. But this is a competitive advantage that Australia can bring to the task that other countries can't provide. So, the idea that we would be walking away from these targets, as Peter Dutton and his colleagues have been saying, is not just environmentally irresponsible, it is incredibly economically irresponsible and puts at risk jobs and cheaper energy prices right across Australia.

LAURA TINGLE: We'll talk a bit more about the Coalition's policies in a minute, but just to be clear, the Government's own official adviser on climate policy, the Climate Change Authority, says your current policy settings mean that we're not on track to meet your target of 43 per cent reductions in emissions by 2030. Do you need to be doing something more yourself as a government to be getting a better outcome?

MURRAY WATT: We certainly acknowledge that there's still work to be done to achieve those targets, Laura, and, of course, that's not surprising when you think about the fact that we had ten years of inaction in this issue before we came to government. But in the figures that the Department of Climate Change and Energy released in December last year, they do indicate that we are on track to get to 42 per cent emissions reductions by 2030, which, of course, is just 1 per cent short of our target. And that's before you take into account some of the policies that we've released even in the last couple of months, things like the tax production credits for our Future Made in Australia Policy, some of the solar initiatives and hydrogen initiatives that we've put in place as well. But clearly, there's a lot of work to be done, but we do now, finally, as a country, have the policy settings in place to get us there.

LAURA TINGLE: Well, with respect, the Climate Change Authority says that you need to be cutting 17 million tonnes a year between now and 2030 to get to those targets. And in fact, the amount of emissions actually rose by 4 million tonnes last year. Whatever that 42 per cent figure is, it doesn't look like it's enough. The Budget papers showed that you're spending more on diesel fuel rebates, i.e. more big cars on the road. Do you need to do something much more explicitly aimed at cutting back on fossil fuels?

MURRAY WATT: Well, as I say, the figures that the Department of Climate Change released do indicate that we're within striking distance of getting to that 43 per cent target, and we've announced further policies since that time as well. We are continuing to work in this space. You know, a number of different Ministers, including myself, are working with Chris Bowen on industry plans for our industry sectors about how we can continue to reduce emissions, not just till 2030, but to get us towards net zero by 2050 as well. So, there's certainly more work to be done. But we're very confident that the policies we've got in place if we see them through as a country can deliver those reduction targets. And I guess that's the question for all Australians now, is whether we do want to stay the course and deliver those emissions reductions that our economy needs, quite apart from our environment.

LAURA TINGLE: Well, the contest at the next election isn't just going to be between you and the Coalition, it's going to be between the Greens and the Teals as well, who are posing a threat to both sides of politics. They all want more action. Does the government need to be more ambitious, and actually do you need to start talking about this in terms of concrete policies and not just percentages? You know, do you need to be talking about things like no more gas exploration, instead of just talking about percentages?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I think what's become clear over the last few days, Laura, is that really, Labor is the only party offering itself up for an election which has an achievable way of delivering the emissions reductions that the country needs. It's very easy for the Greens, who never have to be in Government, to make all sorts of wild claims, always saying we should do something more and adding another zero to the budget of whatever we promise to do.

And equally, it's very clear that Peter Dutton and his colleagues have no intention of delivering this. I mean, if you look at what Peter Dutton and his colleagues have said over the last few days, just today alone we had three different policies from different members of the Opposition. We had Matt Canavan out this morning saying we should pull out of the Paris Agreement. We had Peter Dutton come out a couple of hours later saying we should stay in the Paris Agreement but they're not going to release a 2030 target until after the election, and within minutes another frontbencher Andrew Bragg is saying out that they will have a 2030 target before the election. I mean these characters over the ten years they were in office they had 22 different energy policies. At this rate they're going to get to 22 different policies within a week. That is no way to govern a country. And again, this is more than just an academic exercise. It's not just a debating competition between politicians. It's about our environment, it's about our future jobs and it's about energy prices in this country.

LAURA TINGLE: Murray Watt, thanks so much for your time tonight.

MURRAY WATT: Thanks Laura.

ENDS